How do we heal trauma with the Enneagram? Interview with Melinda Olsen
I had the pleasure of being interviewed by Samantha Mackay on her YouTube Channel @samanthamackaylife. In our conversation we talk about how we can use the enneagram to heal trauma and the topic of processing feelings using different forms of therapy.
Listen to the podcast here or scroll down for the transcript.
Samatha: Welcome to healing with the enneagram, where I chat with certified enneagram practitioners about how they incorporate the enneagram into their healing work. I'm Samantha Mackay, an enneagram coach certified through the Chestnut Paes Enneagram Academy. Through my ongoing study with Beatrice Chestnut and Uranio Paes, it's become clear to to me that the Enneagram is far more than our typologies systems that describes nine types. Instead, it's a framework for deep healing and transformation. But that's not often reflected in the everyday conversations we have about enneagrams, so I wanted. to dive into that a little more. Today, I spoke with Melinda Olsen on one of my favorite topics, trauma, and how we heal, trauma, with the Internet. Melinda is an enneagram therapist, also certified by CP Enneagram.
We talk about what trauma is and give practical examples from our everyday lives. And Melinda shares her experiences working with the Enneagram with her clients for herself and how she turns theory into real life, practical healing and growth. Enjoy.
I'm super excited today. I'm talking with Melinda Olsen about healing trauma with the Enneagram. Hello, welcome!
Melinda: Hi, thank you. I'm so happy to be here.
Samatha: So you're a therapist. Tell me more about that, then we'll talk about trauma.
Melinda: Yeah. So I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist in California, the Bay Area, to be specific. And yeah, I have a therapist for about 10 years, and I've been using the Enneagram increasingly during my time as a therapist. Just from day one, I've been obsessed with the enneagram since college, and I'm and I'm 40, so for a long time, and so I've been using, I've been using the Enneagram more and more as my therapy journey has progressed. So so now I actually call myself an Enneagram practitioner, because I feel like I've, I mean, there's always more work to be done in the Enneagram world, and, of course, as a as a therapist and on your journey of growth, but I feel like I've done a deep enough dive now to say, like, I think I can call myself an Enneagram therapist. I use it a lot.
Samatha: I love it, and you're right with the Enneagram it's actually impossible to ever learn it all that well, it's so deep, it would require a lifetime of full study.
Melinda: So deep, absolutely
Samatha: And I think, you and me both, it's more important to be able to practice with depth rather than have all the knowledge.
Melinda: Exactly. Exactly.
Samatha: That's, yeah, really key. So today we're talking about trauma, and I think this is one thing I learned specifically from my work with Uranio Paes and Beatrice Chestnut by attending their retreats and doing deep work with them, that at the base of almost all of all of our enneagrams, sort of typology and expression, is some form of trauma. I think we don't always know really very well what trauma is. And so if I say everyone has trauma, that's going to freak a lot of people out. So help, help me explain this better. Tell me more. You know, let's get to this
Melinda: Yeah. So I like to talk about the differences between big T and little trauma, right? So big T trauma is what you would describe as your quote on quote, classic trauma, right? Where you believe that you're right under threat, or you're under severe conditions, where your life or self is under extreme um duress, and it causes some big issues down the road. So , yeah know, we, there are many things that can lead to big T abuse, war, blah, blah, right? Like anything that severely impacts somebody either a single episode or many episodes over time, right? So, that's what we think about with big T trauma. I think what people don't understand, however, is that little T trauma can have big impacts on people. Little T trauma is really more about the like everyday interactions with imperfect people. As an imperfect person, and I think we all have our sensitivities and things that within us that if, like we're not cared for, are met perfectly, like we have wounding, like if our if our emotional worlds aren't met now by our parents or our friends, when we're young, that can cause little T trauma if we have, I mean, a lot of this, you're going to hear me talk about attachment figures, siblings, parents, and to some extent, maybe like peers when you're growing up as well. But something like bullying, even if it's just verbal taunting, that's, I mean, verbal abuse, yes, but over time like that can lead to a significant amount of issues and trauma, even though that person didn't think, you know, for some bullying, that person doesn't think, Oh, I'm going to die. My life is in danger. But it is a, it is a daily chipping away of somebody's confidence of themselves and how they show up in the world, which can cause trauma, what we call, or what I call, little T trauma, right? And so all my clients and everybody has little T traumas, right? Because we are forced to be in a world where we are imperfect and we are interacting with imperfect, wounded people. And so, what that trauma looks like depends on our particular sensitivities and the situations that we've been put in in life. But, but yeah, so and some people have both big T and little T trauma.
Samatha: Mmm. And I was thinking, and I know we'll talk more specifics later, but as you were talking I was thinking oh, so that little T trauma for me might have been when I did something creative and I didn't get any positive feedback on it.
Melinda: Yes, absolutely.
Samatha: But the T trauma might have been my parents’ divorce, carrying both around and they're impacting in different ways.
Melinda: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, so yeah. Another example for me, personally, my big T trauma would have been being sexually abused when I was a kid, right? But the little T trauma is, you know, the the little ways that I was missed emotionally by parents who were potentially having a difficult time in their own lives and they couldn't attend to me in the ways that I needed emotionally.
Samatha: Yeah I think it's really important to make that distinction even at this sort of everyday level. You know
Melinda: Yeah
Samatha: And, how, what's the role of the Enneagram in here? What's the link between the Enneagram and trauma?
Melinda: Yeah, so from what I've seen, both of myself and my growth and just in my practice with my clients, is that even though everybody has like, like we said, I think everybody has trauma, big T or little T, trauma or both. But from what I've seen, that shows up like every type has. I think that every type has a way of coping and getting what they need in the world via their personality and their egos, right? Like as a two, my personality structure is such that I want to get people to really love me. I want to make as many positive connections as possible in order to feel loved and cared for and supported, right? And my entire personality structure that was constructd over time my family reinforces that. And how as a two I come into the world, what a pretty darn great coping mechanism to get love that I never felt like I had right or to feel lovable or worthy, right? As a result of, I didn't feel lovable or worthy. Now, was that, you know, my two personality, was that the trauma I experienced, I think it's probably both, I think it's probably that I had a sensitivity toward being emotionally cared for and the sensitivity toward feeling lovable, and that wasn't met perfectly, and then you brought that together, I think, with maybe some parents who weren't particularly great at doing that at all.
So it's it's both right? and so I think that A the Enneagram, the way that I like to think about it with trauma, is that every Enneagram personality structure copes in a different manner, right? In order to get they feel like they really need. And I think trauma can turn that up, right? Like, so if you have trauma as a seven, it might be "My childhood wasn't that bad, oh, my childhood was great. Like, yeah, like, there's some things going on. I just, I just, I always found a way to make it better. I had really good friends" Right? Things that you have, denial, minimization, like that, that fear of being able to sit in those negative feelings like or that, that negative experience that might have happened, right? But that's still the seven personality structure, right? It's a way of coping. And so I find that every type within their own personality structure has a way of coping with the trauma that they experience.
Samatha: Mmm, I think that's so key. When you describe the seven that applies for some stuff, it doesn't resonate with me
Melinda: Sure
Samatha: Because we're all playing it out differently. So for me, it was the "How can I read as many books as possible? You know? And how can I disappear into fantasy, which makes it seem like I'm a sexual seven, but I'm not, because there was this cunning manipulation, you know, cleverness, that I used to survive in various situations.
Melinda: Absolutely.
Samatha: I think that's why the time it can make it tricky to find our type, because there's so many variations as to why these motivations can show up in as is coping mechanisms.
Melinda: Absolutely.
Samatha: So I'm curious about this concept of how we all experience the same like event differently. So if three young kids, you know, potentially the same age, and something happens, you know, why might they respond to that differently?
Melinda: I mean, and that's also where I think that Enneagram comes in, and that's also where I think nature comes in, right? Because before I had my own child, I put a really heavy emphasis on nurture in terms of, right like, as a trained as a therapist, experienced trauma myself as a kid, like, I'm gonna do it different, be a better parent. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it perfectly, like, I got it right? Like, yeah, then I had my kid, and then I was like, Oh, I have so little control over this. I just so I have zero control, right? I have influence, but no control.
And so I think that three different kids can respond to trauma in three different ways, because three different kids come out of the womb differently, like with different, yes, with different birthing experiences, different in the womb experiences, which is nurture that also counts for something, but the way that they were just like, put together and come out, like, of course, they're going to have different ways of receiving or interpreting what they get, right? I mean, that's why you have three siblings and a family or two, two identical twins, and they come out of the womb, they are literally identical. However, they're gonna have different personalities, different ways of being in the world, responding to trauma, because they think of the nature, so that two different Enneagram types, right?
And how I think Beatrice Chestnut talks about this. She talked about it during a retreat we were at. But she talked about how she believed, like every type, kind of corresponds on the Enneagram with a stage of development, with child development, and that just inherently, like, they need that particular stage to be met by their parents perfectly. But nobody comes with perfect parents, like comes out with perfect parents. And so it's like, for instance, you know, a nine might need that, like that merging, or that, like, see again, this is like
Samatha: Skin to skin context, physical
Melinda: Yeah, yeah. Like that physical, skin to skin. Or there's this understanding of like me being like me being a separate person than you, do you remember that part of object relations? But that's not met perfectly by any parent that need to know you're you and I'm me, and we're not merged. And there's some boundaries. Do you know what I'm saying?
Samatha: Yeah, so eight, nines and ones is the body types, they need holding, and they have to be held in a certain way. And then gradually eased into that sense of independence and being,
Melinda: Yes
Samatha: And there's a staged process for that, which, of course,has humans none of us actually really know because we're just trying to get through the moment
Melinda: Absolutely
Samatha: But there is, you know, and they each have a slightly different need for what that holding is exactly, but it never comes out perfectly
Melinda: Right. And so it's like that need is not perfectly met. And so then that that also feel and be like a little T trauma for that type, right? And so and that wounding then begins.
Samatha: And we'll talk about the other centers in a second, if, let's say a head type or a heart type don't get held as well as they need to. Will that still be a trauma, or just won't be as sensitive or as intricate a trauma?
Melinda: Yeah, I mean, what I think in my experience it depends maybe on the severity of that need not getting met. I think it's, it's like severe neglect, and I think that will show up you know,
Samatha: It's relevant.
Melinda: Yeah, exactly.However, I do think that there might be a little more inborn resilience if you're a different type, and that wasn't kind of where you're deeply sensitive.
Samatha: Yeah, I can see that. So then the head types, it's about practicing finding safety
Melinda: Mmm, that makes sense? Yeah, because of the fear
Samatha: And so they're becoming aware of fear, and so they need to know how to get safety. And so it's three different ways of trying to find safety. For me as a seven, your sevens, it's about, how far can I walk away from the parents before it's too far, and then I need to run back?
Melinda: Yes, yeah, which is, like classic attachment theory
Samatha: Well so it's funny, because I do it at music festivals, because they're groups. I'm socially oppressed, very music, very, very uncomfortable, like I liked, still like my independence,
Melinda: Yes
Samatha: I like to explore. So I'll go off and I had my point person, and then the second I'm far away, I'm like, Oh, time to go back to my point person, regroup, hang out with them for half an hour, right? Time away again. And so I see that pattern in myself really clearly, in those, those situations that are for me, in my type structure, very uncomfortable.
Melinda: Yeah, that makes sense, yeah. Safe Haven secure base
Samatha: Safe haven, and then heart types, it's that moment you realize your parents have a separate agenda than you do, and you're not the center of the universe in the way you thought you were.
Melinda: I think Bea talks about how, like, twos, threes and fours, like, heart types tend to deal with that differently, right? Like, it's either, you know, I'm going to go along with your agenda, right? Like, like, what you're talking about, like, somebody else has a separate agenda. You know, a four is going to be like, Well, I have my agenda, and I care if that makes me mad, right? Like, or I have my own agenda, and I don't care if that means that you're not pleased with me, right? Like, every four, but that tends to be, they tend to sacrifice belonging for authenticity, right? They sacrifice going along or pleasing, right, or being authentic to their agendas or themselves, whereas twos and threes, I think, tend to go along and so like, I want you to be pleased with me. I want you to think I'm great, and so I'm gonna go along with your agenda.
Samatha: I'm curious so many different types of traumas and so different extremities, you know, of trauma. Does it change how people express their time?
Melinda: Yeah? And I think the answer is frustratingly yes and no
Samatha: The best answers are
Melinda: Yeah, of course, of course, because I think that in some ways, trauma can amplify the coping styles and the coping mechanisms of every personality type, of every nine types, every one of the nine types, right? And so some of the things that we lean on in order to get through the world can be leaned on extra or employed in order to deal with the after effects of trauma or the effects of trauma.
So again, as a two I'm going to be very pleasing in the world. My personality structure is such that like you to like me. I'm going to create as many positive connections as possible. You know, if you overlay trauma on top of that, it's like, well, I didn't feel very lovable growing up, and so I'm going to over employ this idea of, I'm going to get you to really love me or really like me, so I can get that affirmation that I never felt like Right? And so it is a core type two personality structure thing, but I think that can get either amplified or entrenched, maybe a little bit more if you have trauma, right? Because I think we kind of lean on what we know, and we lean on, you know, we lean on that personality type in order to get what we need in the world, those coping mechanisms that is inextricable.
Samatha: I think what I've noticed is it's a bit more extreme or sensitive or hyperactive when it's close to something that's reminds of the wound.
Melinda: Yep
Samatha: And I mean, if the trauma is broader, I think that changes how that works. But if there's particular sensitive areas within our psyche, and the closer our life event gets to that, the more we react strongly our ego, what I call our inner protection system, really goes into, you know, hyperactive, you know, intense.
Melinda: Yes, yes, in the hyperdrive, agree. What I've also noticed is, if there's a very significant trauma, a big T trauma, I think each of the core types, potentially like display similar like After Effects, right? So every one of the nine types, I think, could probably manifest some sort of anxiety, and how that anxiety manifests might be different, because, let's say Generalized Anxiety is this idea that, like, I have this worry or anxiety that attaches to anything. And Generalized Anxiety is absolutely an after effect of many types of trauma. Well, the things I worry about might be different than the things another type of worry about, right? I'm going to worry about, are my relationships, okay, Oh, my God. Did I say something stupid like, oh, or, what about A, B, C, D, E, right? But in terms of my relationships. Did I do this thing that needed to be done to make sure this person loves me, but for my other types competent at work today, right? A three, did I perform as well as I could? Like, how do other people see me in terms of my performance or my competence? That's different. That's those are different things, right? But it's still anxiety resulting from trauma. And I think the same could be said about depression.
Samatha: That makes a lot of sense in it. I definitely heard B and Uranio talk about the nine types of anxiety and the nine types of depression, and it's something we can all expereience but maybe different things going back for me, a lot of my depression came from feeling limited. Now, of course, there's because of suppression. There's maybe a whole lot of unexpressed anger, that's a part of that. And that's sort of absolutely universal
Melinda: Yes
Samatha: But there's this piece of I'm trapped.You know? I'm trapped and I can't be angry. I can't say what I really need to say, and so now I'm gonna feel depressed. And this is a really tricky thing, because I think a lot of the language you use around this processing, healing, releasing, letting go of none of that's actually how it works. It's just an easy way to explain it, because what we're really doing is integrating and expecting
Melinda:Yes, yes, exactly what I love
Samatha: That is very hard to explain. So I still use inappropriate language because I think it still connects more with people.
Melinda: I agree, I agree. And whenever I talk about trauma, I always talk about the layers like, like an onion, right? Like we we find different layers, like, as we continue in our journeys. Of, usually, there you go, but that indicates an end point, or, like a perfect fruition, right? I also have some idealist types in my practice, and they definitely want, like, this perfect fruition of, like,
Samatha: What do you think I'm on here for? Like this has to be done and I'm going to be happy and there'll be no more stress.
Melinda: Yes, Never gonna deal with this again
Samatha: Hahaha
Melinda: And it'll be totally behind me, and my life
Samatha: Will be perfect at that point. That's gonna happen next week, right? Hahaha
Melinda: Yes, can you give me the task list with which to employ that I can make this happen? The battle plan?
Samatha: Please immediately the blueprint with the 10 page theoretical support documentation.
Melinda: Oh, they do not like me in therapy. I gotta tell you, I'm like, I'm so sorry that's not happening. We are feeling into this right now. Talk to me about that.
So, so I think that that is, that's one thing, right? I love the term degrading, like you integrate your trauma, you expand, right? And I feel like that's, that's absolutely true. I think that's a really a better way to think about navigating trauma with people, and every type
Samatha: It's just disappointing because you want to get rid of it.
Melinda: I mean, yeah, I understand, yes, you want to just behind you, but that is just not, unfortunately, how it works. And actually, Uranio talks a lot about just kind of like the the flow of something more than us, or the universe, kind of taking us through life, and how trusting that the things that happen to us, if we become more aware, they will allow us to grow and like it's about integration, like integrating the things that happen to us in our lives in order to be on that journey of growth and awareness and rising in our like expanding or rising in our awareness. That's how I link integration. It's like integration means understanding, though it's a really difficult process, grieving and then coming to an understanding and awareness that the things that happen to us can actually also we can be the things that cause us to have more, and that's a hard pill. I never want to tell somebody else that that's something that I've come to for myself, but I think that that's a difficult thing
Samatha: Years ago when, obviously, when I first started working with being Bea and Uranio, a radio would say, "Pain, is what wakes people up" And I'm like, No, my whole purpose on being in this planet is to get rid of all the pain. So no, thank you.
Melinda: Yes, the point, the point of pain. It's stupid
Samatha: What's the point? Of course, I can now see the truth in his perspective. Because otherwise, why? Why would we do any of the work? You know,
Melinda: Yes, yes, exactly, so yeah. I feel like, I feel like it's a really difficult message. So again, it's not like, I'm telling all my clients, like, this was great for you. Like, yeah, we get to like, no, that's not, that's not how we engage with that. However, for myself, I can definitely say that that's the case
Samatha: Yeah.
Melinda: And that's why I'm on this journey.
Samatha: I know
Melinda: Don't sound so happy about this
Samatha: I know, I know outrageous. I'll just go cry in the corner. I'll let you know how I feel later.
Melinda: Cool. Sounds good? I can hang with the crying
Samatha: I think now's a good time to talk about how we actually do any of this. So how does the Enneagram help us heal trauma? And once we talk about it practically, I'd love to hear a few case studies, a few examples of what that might look like.
Melinda: Absolutely. Yeah. So, like I just said, I was listening to B and Uranio talk about wings and arrows, like growth with wings and arrows, right? And or the process Enneagram, right? And so I think that is what I think about when I think about using the Enneagram for growth and healing, healing or integrating trauma for my clients, like helping my clients integrate trauma.
And so first, like, we use the Enneagram of personality, right, so we're growing in awareness. Well, I know these things happen to me, like I know that I have trauma. Actually some of my clients come in not knowing so that's actually a process in and of itself, right? And then also concurrently, using awareness of, well, how does the Enneagram describe, my colleague calls them like our autopilot patterns. I like to call them, automatic coping, in order to deal with the things that have happened to us, right? And that, I think, just a lot of the ways that our personality and eco shows up in the world. It's a, I think, partially, a coping mechanism for the stuff that we've experienced, the lack that we feel like we've experienced in the world, and of course, the traumas that we experience.
So awareness first, how are these coping mechanisms showing up? How is my personality kind of telling me like, well, you need to do this in order to get this right. You need to do you need to use flattery in order to get love, right? So, of course, I'm talking about the two in that. So examining that were the type that I have in front of me, and like helping them to kind of become aware of how that they employ that right? Because this is, this is the process of waking up right to understand how we, how that stuff shows up in the world, relationships, the patterns that show up, those are the, I think that's the building blocks of the patterns that show up in our lives as a result of the trauma, like we have the trauma that happens to us. And then the Enneagram personality is the thing that we use to deal. And so they need to become aware of how they deal. So that's A.
And then B, the process Enneagram. So Okay, now that we know this about ourselves, what are some things that like, as we grow via the Enneagram, uh we recognize like I need to maybe expand into a different into my wing, one of my and expanding how I view and cope in the world, or maybe my arrows to kind of deconstruct some of these really harmful patterns that I use in order to get what I feel like I'm needing. So that's very abstract. So I can give some examples, but again, I'll use two, because that's just me, right?
I like using arrows. So as a two, I'm so outward focused, that's that's both. I'm hyper vigilant, which is a product of my trauma, but it's also a product of being a type two. I'm always outside of myself. I'm constantly skinning my environment, the faces of the people around me. What do you need, what do you need? What do you need? Right? Like, it's, it's, it's very, it's a very prominent coping mechanism, both for twos, but also people who experience trauma, specifically twos as well, and so well, what's my first arrow point? It's four, right? It's becoming less outward oriented and more inward oriented, what do I think about this? Or how do I feel right now?
Twos feel a lot, but they police their feelings all the time, like you can't know that I feel this way like, that's, that's, that's gross, like you won't like me if I feel sad, so I'm just gonna repress that. Okay, well, I use the Enneagram my twos, for instance, by saying, like, wow. Like, you really police your feelings. Let's, let's expand into four. What would it be like for you to just accept the fact that you feel this way? What would it be like for you to understand internally that you have a whole spectrum of feelings that other people don't get to comment on or influence, you don't have to put them away. What would it didn't have to carry the burden of everybody like you do? What if you were more focused internally? What would that look like? And then, of course, there's a whole kettle of fish too, of a whole bunch of feelings come up with that, and then you unpack that, and you process that. But that's just just one example of how I use like for type two. So I go through that process with whatever type I have in front of me. Granted I do have to see a lot more hard types in my practice than other types, but it would, it would be a similar.
Samatha: So what, you see mostly two, threes and fours?
Melinda: I mean, classically, those are the types, maybe less threes depending. But twos and fours some. I do have quite a few sevens, but they would have had to hit a wall first. I think same with threes. So I think every type seeks out therapy for different reasons, of course, but yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the heart types just because they find me.
Samatha: That makes sense. I mean, I was basically mute when I went to therapy for the first time. So I understand about it hit the wall. So look, maybe fours. Can you give me example of what it’s like to work with a four? Because I'm always curious about how that, I feel like that authenticity created piece must be very hard, almost to deconstruct, because it's so validated by society at the moment
Melinda: Yeah
Samantha: That can be something that's actually can reinforce the situation
Melinda: Yeah. So I mean, interestingly, I do also find that Forest Police things internally. I know that sounds crazy as well, right? It depends on the 4 as well, like if we're talking subtypes, so because they're so different, but I do it's, it's as with 4a, with anything, it tends to be a bit of a tricky process, because, yeah, like they, there's this deep knowledge and authenticity of their feelings, but there's also this almost clinging to or bear hugging, like a sloth, like bear hugging a tree, to their emotions, their negative feelings and emotions.
Samantha: Right.
Melinda: And it's like, okay, like you're really invested in this identity of, you know, depression, you're really invested in this. These negative feelings or these negative experiences, so much so that sometimes my 4s show up and it's almost like their, they have a verbal tape of their negative experiences that they talk to me about, like these stories that I hear over and over and over and over, there's a lot of spinning, right, and so, how I, so under, like helping 4s to understand that they don't actually process feelings particularly well. They feel a lot of things, but they don't actually process feelings well.
Cause A they are missing a whole part of the spectrum in feelings right? The positive feelings. They have all sorts of fears about being in the positive. But also, I think that if you're clinging onto feelings, you're not processing feelings. If you're clinging onto feelings, you're not using feelings for the purpose they were intended. Which is to gather information, understand what's going on with others and self, and then, acting accordingly, like I'm sad, something I lost something that was important to me, okay, I'm going to grieve, I need to grieve, what does that look like? I need to, like feelings help us to understand what we need to do for ourselves in that moment. Right? They're information gathers. And I think if you're constantly in your feelings, you have a hard time, you're not processing feelings.
Samatha: I think that's a really good distinction.
Melinda: Yeah
Samatha: That Just sitting inside your feelings isn't processing.
Melinda: No
Samatha: Processing allows a feeling to complete itself, because it has a natural cycle.
Melinda: Yes
Samatha: It wants to complete itself. But our defense mechanisms come in and either repress it, or compartmentalize it, or suffocate it, or you know
Melinda: Yes
Samatha: Whatever it is
Melinda: Yes Yeah
Samatha: It's still there
Melinda: Absolutely, absolutely and of course I talk alot about feelings because I'm a heart type and a therapist, but how I take 4s into processing and into trauma is to kind of delicately have them understand that is this the classically Yan Chron the I am, like I am the mountain, I'm not the weather. Like if the feelings are the weather, like, and 4s identify with their feelings, like well you are not your feelings, you are the mountain, right and a lot of my 4s find that to be really helpful because they're like okay, the weather helps me to understand the conditions on the ground, right like, it's raining, it's sunny, it's blah blah blah, I take this information, but then the weather goes, right? And the mountain remains.
And so, you take what you can from the weather, but you are not the weather, right and so, I feel like, but if you think about it to, that's that beautiful step to one, right, it's like there's an objective reality here, and there are steps in which we need to take in order to make something happen, and it's not all about me being in my feelings. And so for 4s, I like to help them understand that there's a different way to process their trauma and their feelings and that they might not have understood that there is a spectrum of feelings to accept and understand and then process through. But then also like there is a need to act and move forward despite how we feel, right?
So if you're feeling anxious and we know that working out helps to navigate anxiety, like helps you to navigate anxiety in a better way, then if you don't feel like working out in the morning, it's not about what you feel, like it's time to get out of bed in the morning and workout.
Samatha: Mmmm
Melinda: You know what I'm saying?
Samatha: No I have no idea what it’s like to do things when I feel bad about them
Melinda: Haha
Samatha: Because I only do things that feel good
Melinda: Hahaha. Why do I sense some sarcasm?
Samatha: Hahaha. It's taken me a very long time to get an exercise practice going, Haha
Melinda: Haha. Well I understand that too. So yeah, so I feel like that is how I work with a 4 right? So, it's an understanding that in their, it's an awareness of the core type and how that 4 type then how it affects how you are coping with the trauma andd viewing the trauma and the things that come up inside as a result of the trauma right? And how the core type makes you interact with the trauma, and the 4s case to be clinging to it, clinging to the negative emotions, clinging to the story, like clinging to the identity which then makes it very difficult to integrate hopefully. And then helping them to understand that there are some action oriented things that needs to happen. So that's step 1. And of course step 2, but after we've put a lot of work in.
Samatha: And I'm curious about this mountain metaphor. Cause I think, with any type with trauma, it's easy to forget we are the mountain, because we've lost connection with our body.
Melinda: Yes
Samatha: And for various reasons, but we can forget that we are the mountain, not just because we are hypervigilant looking outwards, but because it means we are disconnected physically. How do you, or do you incorporate more somatic or physical work into your therapy sessions?
Melinda: Yeah, yeah. So I actually use a modality called brainspotting
Samatha: Okay
Melinda: Which is like a distant cousin of EMDR, I don't know if you've heard of that
Samatha: I've heard of EMDR, I don't know much about Brainspotting
Melinda: Brainspotting, yeah so it's newer, it's definitely newer, but it's similar, it's similar in a sense because it's using a technique to help your brain to process trauma, not in the prefrontal cortex which is what talk therapy does right like rationality reason, I mean all my head types love talk therapy, like talk talk talk, let's talk about, lets get rat, lets rationalize this, let's talk about it, and it can be good, but we have to like, we have to go deeper, and so I use brain spotting to help them get out of their prefrontal cortex and move into processing from their mid brain which is their emotional brain.
So, I won't get into exactly how that happens, but it's to create a more somatized experience of processing. Because you're not processing from your prefrontal cortex and brain spotting.
Every session I do with somebody and we do brainspotting they're like oh it was thing to thing, like memory to though to feeling that there's no linear, it's almost like quantum leaping from thing to thing to thing as they're processing through their trauma, and it's helping their brain to resolve the trauma via their midbrain. So it's it's it's a very different process than say like a talk therapy
Samatha: Yeah
Melinda: So that's one way. Yes and I think right now we're in an era of therapy where we are starting to explore more of the body based therapy like the somatic therapies, EMDR is also a body-based therapy and then you have actually somatic experiencing which is a whole other kind of you know body based therapy, you know you have yoga therapy practitioners, right? And so just somatizing like working out trauma via your body and there's been a lot of research to show that that is a very important aspect of working on trauma right because it can't always be CBT
Samatha: Yeah Absolutely, so let's just sum up, healing trauma with the enneagram is through, pulling the brain sporting piece aside which I think is obviously essential because just talking about arrows is not enough to actually effect change
Melinda: No, correct
Samatha: And I think a really key thing to highlight that your approach to how you work with the arrows in terms of expansion combined with the brain spotting is really what helps to integrate know the trauma underneath
Melinda: Absolutely, yeah so it’s a it’s the somatic process of the brain spotting. I also use a little bit of heartwork which is a more emotional process with all of my clients right and that’s also from an enneagram perspective so, so yeah I use both of those things in order help clients integrate their trauma better
Samantha: Well that makes a lot of sense, and that sounds like a really well rounded approach to help be able to meet someone where they’re at with their trauma and their type
Melinda: I try
Samantha: Yeah, sounds great. Fantastic
Melinda: Yeah, it’s it’s the best work ever. It’s really, I love it. I’m really I’m really passionate about it
Samantha: Good, I’m pleased, I’m pleased that you are, that you exist and are able to support your clients in that way. Thank you for sharing all of this with me today. It’s been fascinating and always great to talk to someone freely and openly about trauma and the enneagram. I think it’s a really important topic, so thanks.
Melinda: Same. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on.
ARE YOU INTERESTED IN LEARNING YOUR ENNEAGRAM & GROWING THROUGH ENNEAGRAM COUNSELING?
Hi, I’m Melinda
I’m a therapist who uses the Enneagram and Brainspotting to help 20 & 30-somethings understand and change unhelpful patterns, love themselves, and navigate all the big transitions and emotions that come with where they are in life