Getting to Know Your Enneagram Number (Part I)

I had the pleasure of being interviewed by Kingsley Moyo on the podcast Relationship Factor. In part one of our discussion of the Enneagram we talked about all nine Enneagram Types as broken down into their Triads, the Gut Triad, the Heart Triad and the Head Triad.

Listen to the podcast or scroll down for the transcript.

Transcript

Kingsley: Thanks again for downloading another episode of Relationship Factor. If we are not already connected, I hang out a lot on Instagram. The handle is Relationship Factor. Occasionally, there I drop some relationship nuggets that'll pick you up and carry you throughout the week and some helpful tips on how to build healthy relationships.

Another episode of Relationship Factor and today my guest is Melinda Olsen. Melinda Olsen is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She is the owner of Inviterra Counseling and the co-founder of Havenly Counseling Collective. In her practice she uses the Enneagram to help millennials understand and change unhelpful patterns, love themselves, and to deal with those difficult emotions. Also, to really understand who they are and show up in relationships in helpful ways.

In our conversation today, we talked about the Enneagram. It's actually a part one where we talk about the Enneagram. Helping you understand the different personalities represented by the numbers. It's not just a number, by the way, it's a personality type that might just change how you receive and give love. Join me for this conversation.

Enneagram has been around for some time now and depending on which circle you hang around; you'll hear it pop up more. It's quite significant for Millennials as well. I could guess maybe Gen X’s to Gen Z’s, but Millennials grew up around this Enneagram. It exists, it's about people, it's about personalities and it so happens it has to do with how people show up in relationships. But before we even figure out what it is and how you show up in a relationship, in this part one, we want to understand a little bit about what is an Enneagram?

Melinda, where do we even begin with the Enneagram? What's the inception of it? Where does it begin?

What is the Enneagram?

Melinda: The Enneagram at its most shallow, it is a personality inventory with nine Core Types. However, I think that it's also just a really deep way of understanding how we as children survived in the world and got what we thought and felt we really needed and how we carry that pattern into adulthood, into our lives and our relationships.

It's also a guide to help us to grow, to make us aware of that pattern and then to help us to get out of it.

Kingsley: So, it seems like it's something that starts as well from childhood. So, there's some sense of attachment. Is there a difference between the attachment style and the Enneagram or is this the same or this is left and right and north and south, what's the difference?

I'm hearing from childhood, so family of origin, maybe? Walk me through that. Are they the same or are they different? What's the difference?

Melinda: I think they're different. However, I think they can coincide together. Certain Types can lean towards particular attachment styles. Certain Types could be an anxious attachment. I think that what the Enneagram does, that attachment styles don’t necessarily, is talk about the core desires and core needs of every person. It provides a bit more detail and how we can show up in the world.

I think they go together. However, they are different things.

Kingsley: They are different things. So, it's neither either or. You could dabble there, but the Enneagram can give you a little bit more. You said there's nine of them. Attachment styles is about three plus one. So, it's a little bit more, it goes in depth a little bit more.

Let's talk about these nine Enneagrams. Where do we even begin? How would it even begin? How do you organize them? Nine seems like a lot.

Melinda: Actually, you start out with nine Core Types, but at its deepest you could get to 27. We won't get into that today; I'll just go over the nine Types.

They're organized in Triads. If you see the Enneagram shape, which you might post somewhere, you can see nine points all connected. The Triads are broken out into Triads that lead with the Body intelligence or their Gut. Three that lead with their Feelings or Emotional intelligence and three that lead with their Head or their Thoughts. Three kinds of intelligence.

Kingsley: That's interesting because already there, it begins to organize them. You can almost kind of rule out the ones that are not you. If you were approaching them, you mentioned one that leads with the Gut, with the Body, can you unpack that? What does that mean?

The Gut Triad

Melinda: That’s basically the fastest way that we think in the world. Actually, in Western culture I think that's the one that we tend to forget about or push aside. It's basically the way that we can decide about something being right or wrong or just or unjust in a second, a split moment. It is a very quick way of organizing your world. That’s the Gut intelligence.

Kingsley: So, this triad can be the microwave culture. Can we blame and say they are the ones who brought in the microwave culture where they want things instantly, decisions instantly? Impulsive?

Enneagram Type Eight

Melinda: It depends on the number. The three numbers in the Gut Triad are Eight, Nine, and One. Each of them interacts with that Gut intelligence differently.

You have the Enneagram Eight. They do tend to be more impulsive. They tend to want more. They tend to be oriented towards strength and power.

They're called “The Boss” or “The Challenger”. They move toward conflict and confrontation.

Kingsley: Hold on, hold on. Let's do this. Let's take it from the top. So, do we begin from One?

Melinda: I'd begin from Eight.

Kingsley: So, we're right in the beginning there.

So, listen up folks. You Type number Eight. If you are, go ahead, drop it.

Melinda: It's called “The Boss” or “The Challenger”. If you are oriented towards justice or unfairness, if you are oriented towards strength and power, Eights can go into a conflict. They won't say that they love it, but they can do it because it's necessary.

They are direct. They're straightforward. They have an attention on creating order out of disorder, looking at the big picture. They have a lot of energy. They are very energetic, their energy is the kind when they walk into a room, you can tell like everything orients towards them.

The thing about Eights is they tend to be quite intimidating without even meaning it because they have such a big impact. They don't often know how scary they can be, and they have a lot of access to anger. They can access anger quickly. They're the ones that you might see doing some road rage. They can be excessive, they can be impulsive, but they're also really protective of others, and they're really oriented towards standing up against the bully.

Kingsley: So, they're protectors, as it were. Keeping the peace, justice.

Any public figures we may tag as an Eight that pop up in your mind?

Melinda: I do think that… this might be a controversial drop, but I do think that Donald Trump actually is an Eight. A more unaware Eight. In spaces of unawareness Eights can be very headstrong, they can be really intense, and they can push, push, push, push, push for what they're wanting. Not afraid of conflict.

Kingsely: They're going in.

Melinda: They’re going in. There's no pausing before they run headlong into something.

Kingsley: That says a lot about how they even show up in relationships. If they push, push, push, taking charge, it may cause a little bit of some distress in the relationship, but that's a conversation for part two. We just want to break it down and understand what the Enneagram is.

We're at number Eight. Do we go down to number Seven?

Enneagram Type Nine

Melinda: We go up to Nine. So, Nine is also a Gut Type, but the way that they interact with themselves is very different. Nines are “The Peacemakers”. They are easygoing. They are chill. They can see all sides of an issue so much so that they have a really hard time identifying their own opinions.

Their thing is they tend to merge with other people. They become numb to themselves, their needs, their desires, who they are. They really crave harmony. When they're aware they can be super deep and know themselves really, really well. They struggle with knowing who they are and what they want and standing up for that against the world. The people in their world.

Kingsley: It sounds like this is a person who would often feel like they have lost their identity because they get into a space, in a big world, and they get consumed in a big world and they’re attending to other people's needs.

Before they realize it, they feel like I don't do the things that they used to do anymore. There's a sense of lost identity.

Melinda: Or never even knowing that identity in the first place.

Kingsley: Never even knowing that identity in the first place. And that can be a challenge too when you show up at work or in relationship, because you don't know who you are.

Melinda: Yeah. So often this number in relationship will find themselves going along with their partner instead of really understanding what they're needing, what they're wanting, their opinions. This is the person who you never want to ask, to put pressure on them, like, where do you want to go to eat?

Because that's just a lot. That's just a lot for some Nines.

Kingsley: Melinda don't take me there. I thought, maybe being stereotypical here, this is all women. “Where do you want to go eat?” “I don't know.” “Do you want to go there?” “No.”

So, would I be pushing it if I say, well, that sounds like women are Nines in the stereotypical world? Am I getting into trouble here?

Melinda: Yeah, you are, you are. Ha!

Nines have a feminine energy just like Eights, I think, have probably more of a masculine energy. However, the body with which that is in, could be any gender.

Kingsley: So, the feminine energy and the masculine energy. The Nine will be the feminine. The Eight will be the masculine. This could be male or female. Any public figure that we can tag to that?

Melinda: I feel like it's so hard to type public figures. None that comes to mind right now.

Kingsley: For some reason I was thinking of Michael Jackson as you were talking. I don't know why I was thinking of Michael Jackson. I don't know why.

Melinda: Maybe, maybe.

Kingsley: This is not a fact. We're just using this figure just to give a picture in somebody's mind on what an Eight or a Nine will look like.

Since this is the Triad of the Gut, so this would be Eight, Nine. Are we going to number One?

Enneagram Type One

Melinda: We're going to One. Ones are called “The Perfectionists”. In a world where things go crazy wrong all the time, the One notices and deeply cares. Ones are also called “The Reformer”.

They're the ones who have deep integrity in the world. They hold themselves to incredibly high standards and sometimes either intentionally or unintentionally they can hold others to incredibly high standards. They want the world to line up with what they believe is right and they also want to be good. That's where the One's energy is.

They are also oriented towards justice. They are oriented toward wanting to make things good and right within themselves and in the world. However, because of that, they also have a really, really strong internal critic. So as much as Ones can be critical outwardly, and some of them can be, their inner critic is louder and they will really, really hold themselves, sometimes in unkind ways, to incredibly high standards.

Kingsley: So there's a possibility that somebody who is a One may feel like, am I good enough? While they are reflecting on the outside, they also look at themselves. Am I good enough to actually contribute on the other side?

Melinda: Always, yeah.

Kingsley: Which means that they may also need some more affirmation to actually boost them. Or they over lean. There's a word like that. They need it much more because they have the inner critic, which is loud and loud. If they don't pay attention to it.

Melinda: That inner critic, I think both serve to make them good, right?

It serves to make them good people, which I think is probably the most important thing, right? To be good and right in the world. So, it can be a burden.

Kingsley: So, they deeply care. It's like anyone who deeply cares. They are easily moved and hurt by other people's pain and struggles.

I could see the social justice part in that. And I could see them absorbing their partner's pain unnecessarily or much more than they can handle.

Melinda: I think that they deeply care about their partner's pain. However, they often have a hard time knowing how to respond in a correct or right way. So, they will often spend a lot of time spinning, trying to figure out like, how can I show up right? How can I show up well? How can I show up as a good person, a good partner? They often have a hard time also knowing what they actually really want, what they desire.

Kingsley: So, if they don't position themselves right, there may be a lot of confusion, even sometimes confusion on the things that are actually good and right.

So, that's the first Triad that goes with the Gut that makes decisions. Kind of like a go-getter, in their different respects.

What's the next Triad that we go to?

The Heart Triad

Melinda: The next Triad that we go to is the feelings Triad, the Heart Triad.

Kingsley: The feelings Triad, the Heart Triad.

Let's talk about the Heart Triad.

Enneagram Type Two

Melinda: Let's! So, number Two, this number is one I know well. I am an Enneagram Two. Enneagram Twos are often described as “The Givers” or “The Helpers”, but I actually really think that a better title for them is “The Befriender”.

Enneagram Twos are warm. We can seem really kind. We are geared towards connection and relationships. We have a lot of feelings. However, we are very outward oriented and basically, we really just care about being liked. I think this is probably stereotypical, though I really don't like this term, codependent. We want to be needed. We want to be wanted. We want to be loved. Because of that we will position ourselves in people's lives to be charming, to be likable, to be attractive, so that you will be drawn to us. So, the people that we want to be drawn to us are drawn to us and then we can have positive relationships and get what we're needing without actually having to ask. So we think.

That's the Two's gambit.

Kingsley: I think I'm kind of relating to the Two's a little bit there. As we go along, I think, yeah, maybe Two is a contender. It sounds like with the Two when they hurt, they hurt deeply.

Melinda: Oh yeah. The way that we hurt the most is if we feel like the people that we care about reject us. Those are the nightmares that I have.

Kingsley: So, the rejection. It also sounds like the Twos love relationships. It's an important part of their life. Having those good and positive relationships really is a huge factor in their life. It doesn't matter who it is. So having those relationships is meaningful. So, if you were to ask a Two, help me out here. If you were to ask a Two what is the meaning of life? They would probably say the meaning of life is having good relationships.

Melinda: The meaning of life is love.

Kingsley: The meaning of life is love. Okay. So that's number Two. What's the next one.

Melinda: The next one is number Three, but I just want to say one more thing about number Two, if that's okay. The last thing about number Two that I think, especially in terms of relationships, is that Twos because we're so outward oriented we have a very hard time knowing what we need and who we are. That will show up in relationship, too. So, when we talk about that, I just want to kind of emphasize that.

Kingsley: All right. So really identify what we need because we're outward focused as Twos. It becomes a little bit difficult discovering who you are. That may become a challenge if they are paired with an Eight, but we'll talk about that a little bit on. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, so what's

What’s the next one that we go to next?

Enneagram Type Three

Melinda: Next on that Triad is the number Three. Just like with the Gut Triad, each number in the feelings Triad engages with their feelings differently.

So, Twos really engage in other people's feelings. They have a lot of their own, but they don't always know it. Threes tend to repress themselves and repress their feelings. The Threes are oriented around success. They want the people around them to see them as successful. They want people around them to see them as, I guess, competent, but mostly they really crave approval.

I think a lot of CEOs that you see are Threes. They are incredibly action oriented. They can be a bit impatient because they want things to go according to this vision in their head.

Kingsley: So, if it doesn't go according to their vision that can be a problem?

Melinda: That can be a problem, especially if it slows things down. They want things to go well and quickly. They are incredibly productive. They can be workaholics. Sometimes material success and outward benchmarks of success are really important to them. They have a really hard time showing and knowing what they feel.

Kingsley: Hard time showing and knowing what they feel. That can be problematic in relationship.

Melinda: Yeah, in relationships, feelings aren't aerodynamic. That's the saying.

Kingsley: So, because they suppress their feelings it means that, I'm just thinking about some mental health as well here, they may be prone to depression as well if they go through a rough patch and they are not able to emotionally express. They carry the burden a lot and that could weigh heavily on them.

Melinda: Yes. I have actually seen a lot of Threes that struggle with anxiety as well, which is another symptom of what you're describing. That suppression of emotion. That can be really hard for Threes.

Kingsley: Okay, so I'm seeing that there's different unique pieces in each of these numbers, but they're not necessarily completely separate. There's a little bit of some traces here and there, but in each, there's an emphasis on something and an emphasis on something.

Melinda: Exactly. An emphasis on something that they draw all their attention to.

Kingsley: Now that's the second one for the Triad. What's the other one that goes with that Triad?

Enneagram Type Four

Melinda: Enneagram Type Four, and they're often called “The Artist” or “The Romantic” in the classical sense. Fours love feelings. They're very internally focused. Fours are the ones who often know how they feel, know the shades of how they feel. They can describe sadness in 50 different ways. They really know and feel their feelings often. These are the people who could feel happy in the morning, melancholy at noon, and contemplative at three. They can cycle through the whole gambit of their feelings in a very short period of time.

Kingsley: Would that be a person we would call moody?

Melinda: They could be called moody.

Kingsley: In our social construct way of defining things.

Melinda: Potentially, I think many Types can be moody in their own particular ways. What this Type gets labeled with a lot is sensitive. I think sensitive is a superpower. However, that label can be negative because they feel things deeply and they over identify with their feelings. They are their feelings. They can also be labeled as, “Oh, you feel too much. You're sensitive.”

Kingsley: There's a struggle with differentiation there for them. What they think and how they feel tends to be almost lumped up together. And in places where they need to be in intellectualizing, they emotionalize, and it gets a little bit difficult for them to navigate that. The opposite is also true where they're feeling when they're supposed to think, they feel, where they're supposed to feel, they think, because all of that is lumped up together.

Melinda: Yes, their thinking and feeling are basically together. Fours can be very intellectual numbers. They can use their heads quite a bit, but I think over and above that they are led through their emotion and what they're feeling about certain things. As a result, they can be incredibly thoughtful. They have so much depth. They can hang with suffering like nobody because they know it so well. Because they feel all the shades of those. However, yes, it's hard for them to understand who they are apart from those really big feelings.

Kingsley: This sounds like somebody who would create a product to open a company that serves a purpose in the environment, but they're not necessarily concerned about the profits, or the profits don't outweigh the impact on the environment on the impact on people. It's not about making that money. For them it's like how can I make money in such a way that people won't get hurt or there's a balance between the two?

Melinda: And how can they make money or do things in a way that is most authentic to who they are and what they feel.

Kingsley: All right. So, now that's the third piece on this quadrant. This quadrant was for individuals that are emotionally driven. Emotions are powerful. We tend to sometimes label people and say, you’re so emotional. Yeah, I'm emotional! That's a good thing! It's a superpower!

Melinda: Exactly. I think so.

Kingsley: I think so too. Because once you have emotional intelligence you can navigate a whole lot of things in your life differently.

So, that's the second Triad. Now we're going into the third Triad and this Triad is the Head. Tell me about the third Triad. So what number are we at now?

The Head Triad

Enneagram Type Five

Melinda: We're at number Five. My husband, Enneagram Five. So, the Head Triad and specifically Enneagram Fives, they're called “The Observers”. Their fear in the world is being overtaken. They tend to be very private people and they are really vigilant around energy.

I think this is probably the stereotypical introvert. They can never have enough time alone. They have a few very good friends, but you had better be worth it, if they're going to spend the currency of their energy and the time on somebody.

They are incredibly intellectual. You'll find a lot of academics who are Fives. Sometimes they can go into their ivory tower and have a hard time coming out. They have a hard time accessing their emotions, spontaneity and deep feeling because they use their minds to guard themselves from basically everything. If they can understand it, they can conquer it.

Kingsley: It sounds like somebody who is often never really understood by a lot of people. Because in their mind, it makes sense. They can rationalize it. And because they can rationalize it, they are not really out to open it up to anybody else.

So, it takes a lot for you to get into their space and understand them. They get labeled in so many other ways. A list of things like, oh, this person is like that, this person is like this, because they haven't really opened up to a lot of people.

Melinda: Stoic is one of the words that is used often with Fives. What's interesting is I hear from a lot of Fives that they feel like they are broken or wrong in the world. Almost like something's wrong with them. I find that actually they are deeply emotional, but they just don't know they're so sensitive. They don't know how to tap in. They really do care about relationships, and they are deeply sensitive, but again, they don't know how to tap into that. They do get mislabeled quite a bit as stoic or robotic or unable to be in deep relationships sometimes.

And in fact, that's not true at all.

Kingsley: Insensitive could also be a label I think they could get. It sounds like, and really, they're not. I would assume that if they're told, “You are insensitive”, it hurts them because in their mind, they're thinking I'm not insensitive. How could you say something like that about me? And then they close off again.

Melinda: Yup. It takes a lot to get them to open up and they are hypervigilant around rejection.

Kingsley: Hypervigilant around rejection. So that's number Five.

Number six.

Enneagram Type Six

Melinda: Number Six, they're called “The Devil's Advocate” or “The Contrarian”, “The Loyalist”. The Sixes that I know are deeply loyal to the roles that they have in their lives, like parent, friend, spouse, partner. These things have deep meaning for them and they want to perform these things well because they have so much loyalty to these people in the world.

The reason why they're called “The Devil's Advocate” or “The Contrarian” is because they tend to live life in a space where they hold a lot of suspicion towards authority. They question everything. It's almost how they work things out in their world. They think in worst case scenarios.

Kingsley: Sounds like a lot of Millennials.

Melinda: Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, they would have to be given everything that has been thrown at us, right?

Like worst case scenarios, like they'll just think down the line. You want these people on your team if you want a good troubleshooter because they will think in ways that you would never think. If stuff goes down, they're prepared. They really are oriented towards security because they can see so much in the world that is insecure. That isn't stable. They really are oriented toward trying to be people who provide security and then are also secure themselves. They need to feel secure. Sometimes they have a hard time trusting themselves.

Kingsley: This sounds like a person who processes a lot of pros and cons. They can identify the pros and cons. In any decisions. In financial matters they can process the pros and cons. So, when they are going to do something, they already know that, okay, I'm doing something dumb here, but I already know why it's dumb, but I like it. I'm going to do it anyway. Or if they're not doing it, they already know I'm not doing it because of ABCD. They have it figured out.

Melinda: Yeah, if they make the decision. Paralysis analysis could be something that all Head Types struggle with, but I think especially Fives and Sixes. Because they're going through an endless list of pros and cons. They have a really hard time, and especially Sixes again, trusting themselves. They have a harder time with action. They can just sit in the pros and cons for a long time.

Kingsley: That means inaction and in a relationship, it could mean that he just doesn't do anything or she doesn't do anything. She just talks and talks about how negative and positive, and we never do. We'll get to that in part two.

That's number Six and number Seven? Complete the Head Triad.

Enneagram Type Seven

Melinda: Number Sevens. The joke about Sevens is that everybody, when they find their Type feels really badly about their Type. They're like, Oh, that's me, that's terrible. Except for Sevens. Sevens typically love that they're Seven.

Sevens are happy go lucky. They're called “The Adventurer” or “The Epicure”. They're the ones who almost consume experiences. These are the people who I see on Instagram who are doing like five different wild adventurous activities a day. They're fast paced. They're energetic. I think a lot of CEOs can be Sevens too, but they’re ideas people. They have a harder time with implementation, but if you want an ideas person, a Seven is your go to.

They're fun. They want to have stimulating experiences and they're going to go from thing to thing, to thing, to thing. They just have, again, so much energy. They, however, have a really hard time and they're a little like Eights in this way, but they have a really hard time accessing negative emotions. It's almost like I need freedom. I need fun. I need positivity. They're super optimistic. But when you ask them about emotional pain, they're like, oh, no, no, no, no. There's something inside of them that really has a hard time with that, because deep down they have a fear that if they tap into that, they'll never get out and it will overtake.

Kingsley: So, it’s scary down there. This is somebody who perhaps might've gone through trauma in their life or in their childhood, and it may affect the adult relationships. They don't want to go back there because it actually is much more painful for them to go there because that has to do with the emotional piece of things.

Melinda: Yeah, maybe. I think that definitely is something that could happen to Sevens. I think they're the ones who you see, if they've gone through trauma, they're the ones who it gets reflected to them like, wow, all that happened to you and you're so positive. All that happened to you and you're so optimistic. You're so resilient. You're so happy. And deep down I think that there's a lot of fear of going into those hard emotions.

Kingsley: Could a Seven be a person who blocks away difficult things by just being in a positive mood? Let's just have fun. Let’s just not talk about that. Like a parrot, colorful.

Melinda: Yes.

Kingsley: In all of these numbers how do I avoid making this just a number and actually embrace and take it in as a personality. Because it's easy to say, oh, I'm number Seven. That's just a number. How do I take it on and really embrace it? And I learned to work with it.

Melinda: The first most important thing is to spend some time with it. Often tests, though they can be somewhat helpful, getting to know every number and really checking it against your own personal experience based off of your entire life. What comes most easily to you and how that's been for you in every situation or most in your entire life. Spending some really good time with that and seeing what fits.

Honestly, it's a process to get to your number. Sometimes it comes quickly for people, but often I think it takes some really intentional, internal thinking. Actually, that's the whole point of the Enneagram. It's about awareness. It's not about, I'm a Seven. I have this box. It's about I now know that this is my box and now I know because of that awareness, how I can get out of it.

Awareness and Growth

Kingsley: So, the word that I'm looking for is awareness. Enneagram is about awareness. The more you know yourself, the more you show up better in life and in general, wherever you may be.

It's interesting because as I was listening to you talk it sounds like it's in my best interest not only to know my number, but to know generally what the other numbers are like then perhaps it'll help me deal with conflict. It can help me figure out my partner. It can help me navigate life or the difficult situations that I have with my boss and all that stuff. Just having to know that, okay, this is my personality Type. This is my boss's personality Type. This is my partner's personality. It's not that they're mad at me or they just don't care. It’s just who they are. So how do I understand them and let them in my world to understand me? That's what I'm hearing.

Melinda: Yes. That's absolutely right.

Not only is this my personality Type, but again, awareness can bring us out of our autopilot. I like to think of these numbers as ways that we go into autopilot.

The awareness that we can have around Type, it could be, wow, so this is, my Enneagram Personality Type. This is the way that I go into autopilot. Here are the things that I do without even thinking that could be hurtful to me, that could be hurtful to the people in my life, that could be detrimental in my job.

And here are the numbers that I know that my boss or my partner identify with. This is what I know they struggle with. This is what I know what they might tend towards in their auto pilot. So, now I know and can have empathy for and an understanding of these people in my life and how they identify in their core Type.

Kingsley: So, with these numbers, once I identify numbers or One or Two or Three or Seven or whatever, is it permanent? Or can I say at this stage in my life before when I was single, I was a Three and then I got married I was a Five and I got older I became a Nine. Does it work like that? Or pretty much you stay with the number that you have.

Melinda: You stay with the number that you have, your core number. You carry that throughout your entire life. However, in different stages of awareness and growth, that number can look very different. For instance, when you have an Enneagram Two in there least levels and their lowest awareness, you can sense resentment and manipulation. If you aren't grateful for the things that I did for you that you never even asked for, right?

But in awareness, when Twos start to understand, I need to learn how to take care of myself. I need to learn what I need. I need to learn how to show up authentically in my relationships instead of showing up how I think people want me to show up. They can start to take on a deep, authentic way of being and a true generosity that doesn't look like the Two that doesn't have a lot of awareness. They can even take on traits of other numbers. So, it looks a little different as they grow, but they keep their core type.

Kingsley: That's an interesting piece because it doesn't necessarily mean that the person has changed. It just means that they have adapted to a situation and the experiences have kind of shifted them to respond in different ways, but they still are who they are. Sometimes when you're with people or hanging out with people, partners, whoever they may be, it may not necessarily be a true statement to say that you've changed. A person may not have changed. Sometimes people do change, but sometimes they may not have changed, but their number is just manifesting differently. So, learning that and knowing that just may be transformational for yourself and for the relationships you have around you.

Melinda: Yeah, I agree. I think though, change, I agree with the idea of change. I think that people do heal, and I think that as we get to know the boxes that we're trapped in and bring healing to those spaces, and I think that Enneagram can bring some really great insight into where we do need to heal. It can be also transformational.

Kingsley: Wow. We could go on and on about this Enneagram. I know that's why we decided to do it in two parts. In the next part we'll talk about exactly how does the Enneagram affect your relationship. What do you do with the Enneagram, how do they match, how do they mismatch, what does it look like in relationships. And I know we can go on and on and on with the Enneagram Types and from what I'm hearing from Melinda is that they could be subcategories underneath. So, this thing can go deeper in really understanding yourself. Are there any assessments out there that I can take to kind of get me going and trying to understand what my Enneagram is?

Melinda: There are several tests that you could probably Google and they could point you in a direction, though I have to caution you that they are often not accurate. It could be a good sorting or a good place to start. However, I wouldn't take it as gospel, which is why really learning about each Type via a podcast or a book can really be more helpful because learning your Type, like I said is a journey.

I think that a podcast would be a great beginning to start.

Kingsley: Thank you so much folks. It's a wrap, another episode of Relationship Factor. As always if you need more information or resources go here. This is part one of part two.