Cracking the Code: An Introduction to the Enneagram (Part I)
Joanne Kim (OliveMe Counseling) and Melinda Olsen (Inviterra Counseling) join Nikhil Sharma (AlignUs World) in a six part series to discuss the Enneagram.
In this six part series we give an introduction to each Enneagram Type, look at each of the Triads: Body, Heart, and Head, and discuss subtypes and instincts.
Watch the video below for Cracking the Code: An Introduction to the Enneagram (Part 1) (or keep scrolling past the downloadables for the transcript!)
Cracking the Code: An Introduction to the Enneagram (Part II)
Body Types - 8s, 9s, 1s
Head Types - 5s, 6s, 7s
Heart Types - 2s, 3s, 4s
Transcript
Nikhil: Welcome to the Alignus podcast, a transformative journey into the worlds of wellness and philanthropy. I'm your host, Dr. Nikhil Sharma, and I'm so grateful to have you guys here with us today.
Each week, you'll hear conversations that are at the crossroads of wellness, transformation, and philanthropy. You will hear inspiring stories to empower you on your own personal growth journey, as well as helping you make a positive impact on this world. Today's topic is on the Enneagram Personality Types.
We have two great guests. We have Ms. Melinda Olsen, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist, founder of Inviterra Counseling, and co-founder of Havenly Counseling Collective. We also have Joanne Kim, an Enneagaran Therapist at OliveMe Counseling and Feelings Translator at Intelligent Emotions.
Welcome to the broadcast, ladies. We're so grateful to have you all here with us today.
Joanne: Thanks. Good to be here.
Melinda: Happy to be here.
Nikhil: Before we get started on our topic today, do you mind giving us a little background on your current career?
Joanne: The main work that I do with people comes from me drawing out who each person is. A lot of that has to do with our core values. All of us have deeply buried values, dreams, and aspirations and it's my big passion to be able to connect with people, get them to know themselves well, and to actually nurture and draw them out.
Under OliveMe Counseling with Enneagram therapy, I help people find out what their reflexive autopilot patterns are that actually keep them stuck so that they can know how to sidestep those patterns. Under Intelligent Emotions, as a Feelings Translator, I help people use the power of their feelings to be able to find out who they actually are, what matters most to them and actually to draw that forth.
Melinda: I have two businesses, but I really like focusing on the depth work. Through Inviterra Counseling, I also use the Enneagram, but I like to see people who are a little further along in their Enneagram journey. They might already know what Type they are and how they identify and their patterns, but there's a lot of very deep work in getting beyond those patterns and doing psychological work that will help them to break through levels of awareness. That's what I love to focus on.
I also love creating beautiful, kind, inclusive spaces for people and communities. I co-founded Havenly Counseling Collective and I love to create spaces of community and care for both my individual clients and also for clinicians. So. that's where I spend most of my time.
Nikhil: We are very blessed to have both of you here. As is our audience. I am a big believer in the Enneagram, as Joanne knows, but it has truly been a renaissance for me ever since I became aware of this tool of self-discovery. There are many tools out there, however this one just clicked for me. That passion that's kind of ignited by learning my Enneagram Type helped me want to help spread the message. This is such a great tool. It will literally track your progress in life from when you were a baby and why you do the things that you do now. It's so perfect at that. It was a little scary because it's like, uh, nobody else is supposed to know my thoughts. It's just so deep.
Melinda: Like who read my mail?
Nikhil: I'm so happy to be creating this whole series on the Enneagram Types with you. Why don't we jump right in. What is the Enneagram for people who are unaware of this famous term? What's the background of how the Enneagram came to fruition?
Melinda: The Enneagram is a system at its most shallow, personality. Nine descriptors of personality, though, that can be expanded into 27 or more. Describing nine core Types of how you do life, your coping mechanisms, and your motivations in life. That is what the Enneagram is at its most shallow.
However, it's also a system of growth and understanding how you can grow beyond that coping mechanism or those motivations. How you can become more aware of what drives you and what patterns make you do the things you do. Joanne likes to call them autopilot pattern, and how you can grow beyond those autopilot patterns and into your highest self.
Nikhil: I think you hit that on the head because my understanding of it is kind of like, this is who you are at your most basic level. This personality, it's your autopilot. It's what was formed for you to survive when you were a young kid. We had to learn based on our environment what survival techniques we needed to employ; what boundaries were healthy for us at that time. Becoming aware of that now helps us be able to understand some of the patterns of why we do the things that we do. But then more importantly how can we, based on that awareness, create an action plan to improve ourselves and improve our day-to-day interactions, our relationships, and so forth. It's truly beautiful.
Melinda: To put something in there too, it's about understanding. Most people come to Enneagram work understanding that these patterns aren't working for them anymore. They might have worked when we were kids, but they don't really work for us now. In fact, they kind of get us into hot water or they cause suffering for us. The Enneagram can help us grow beyond that too, which is huge.
Nikhil: That's right. Can you share just a little bit about how did Enneagram came about? How long has it been around for? Is it something that most psychologists are pushing towards? That this is the real deal for our personalities and becoming aware of ourselves.
Joanne: What we know about the Enneagram now is the latest iteration. This is a framework that's been described over thousands of years. It hasn't maybe been put into a system of nine personality Types per se, but lots of different ancient traditions, Christianity, Judaism, Sufism. From different parts of the world, when people have really dedicated their attention towards personal work, there were these common descriptors. I think in a lot of esoteric teaching spaces teachers basically found out these patterns of what's keeping their students stuck from moving on to the next level.
So, you look throughout ancient history, there are traces or bits and pieces of the Enneagram that we hear about. Like the seven deadly sins that was around hundreds of years ago. You just tack on two more and it becomes nine that correspond with each of the nine Types.
The version that we know about has been a recent new wave that's been around since the 1970s. Teachers used to tell their students, don't tell anyone about this because other people won't understand and won't know how to wield it well. Because people's core needs, motivations, things that are subconscious and in the hands of wrong people can be very dangerous. But Berkeley students being who they are, they decided to go share the rules and they wrote down these things on paper. So, what we read about the Enneagram nowadays is that version from 1970s and on.
There's not a whole lot of integration between the Enneagram and psychology in terms of how openly a psychologist and any mental health professional accepts the Enneagram yet. Because they kind of write it off as being super “woo-woo” and there's so much emphasis on reasoning, science, metrics, data. I do think that there's a heavy Head Type bias in overly looking for those things as if other things that don't quite fit those metrics don't exist or don't matter. We're seeing more of a trend of them being more integrated together, but I think it's going to take some time.
Nikhil: I remember mentioning I was so excited when I was seeing my therapist, he's a psychologist, and I was like, “Oh, my God, I'm an Enneagram Type 7 and I'm a wing this…” and he was like, what? He had heard the Enneagram Type, but I want to say that he wasn't as versed into it. So, my excitement was quickly shot down a little bit, but it's okay. I think that's a part of understanding that this is slowly getting more accepted.
You guys have been on this Enneagram journey for quite some time. What made you fall in love with Enneagram so much so that it has now become a part of your life path?
Melinda: That's such a great question. I love that question so deeply.
I was introduced to the Enneagram 20 years ago when I was in college. At the time one of the people who was in leadership over me, I was a part of a spiritual community, was really into the Enneagram. She was like, you're not going to understand this until you're 30 so go ahead and try it and we'll see what happens. And I'm going, want to bet? So, I engaged the Enneagram. I wouldn't say I fell in love with it, but became deeply intrigued. Because I found that when you found your number you feel like your journal's been read. That's what started off the journey and I've been trying to gain information ever since, but it kicked off even more when I got introduced to the Chestnut Pias Academy about five years ago. That was the same time that Joanna and I started working together.
Joanne: We are best friends and work wives and heavily in each other's splash zone. All the growth steps, all the improvements we've made along the years is partially because we kept chafing.
Nikhil: There's gotta be times though, because you guys know each other's types so well that you can…
Melinda: No. we're like, who is this about right now? We're like, Oh dear God.
Nikhil: That's what I want people, our audience, to realize is that once you realize what your own Type is, then you're going to want to have your husband or wife or girlfriend’s Type figured out because it's such a great way to better communicate with your significant relationships. I see your sentiment in this and I'm totally with you guys in this journey.
It truly is empowering to really know yourself in and out. There is a power that comes with that. I feel like the Enneagram allows you to know not just the good sides of you but the bad sides of you. When we're on this journey, we are going to find the uglier sides of our personality, or I call them the shadow sides. It's really important for us to be compassionate about those aspects of us because those were built at a very young age, we don't even remember how those personality sides to us have developed, but all we can know is it was used as a way of survival, which is what's gotten us here. But now, to take the next leap, it's important for us to really delve in, figure out who we are, what motivates us, and then push forward and really get to the best version of Melinda, Joanne, Nikhil, anyone out there.
Melinda: That's exactly how I found the Enneagram to be for me and I feel like you too. You fell in love with the Enneagram.
Joanne: I mean, it's a love-hate relationship.
There's a saying from our teachers that, “You don't find the Enneagram, the Enneagram finds you.” I think it's because only when we're at a state of openness, in seeing something beyond what we assume to be reality, it's just going to go right over our heads. I had already cracked open a couple of years prior to it. So, when Melinda introduced it to me and I did some digging, at least for my type. My type, type Four, is known to be super arrogant in staking a monopoly over authenticity. It's like, I know myself so well. Fours could be the best therapy clients because they're already soul searching and all that. What really stood out to me was this is how I create my own suffering. And I thought I was being all reflective and self-aware and all that stuff. Instead, I learned that I was actually being self-referencing, not self-aware. I focus on a lot of my internals, but that's actually what's causing a lot of problems. It was kind of like a match to dry grass. It set ablaze really quickly.
Melinda: Then I think we both got each other on fire.
Nikhil: I love that. I think this is going to resonate with a lot of people and I am hoping that they'll see the passion clearly that's coming through all of us.
When I did find out about the Enneagram and I went to my friends because I'm so excited about it they're like, “Nik, where have you been?” In the sense that a lot of their companies, and I didn't realize this, but if you're working in a tech company, a lot of them make them do some sort of Enneagram personality tests so that they can better understand how to motivate their employees. It's something that's clearly been around for a while and it's being used in many different avenues around the community.It's really exciting when you first learn about it and you're empowering yourself. It's an awesome thing.
Why don't we jump into the Enneagram personalities and just go over each Type so that people can try to start the process of figuring it out, and kind of take it from there.
Gut Triad
Melinda: Yes, we'll start with Type Eight. We like to go in Head, Heart, and Gut Types all together.
Nikhil: Perfect. And we'll go over all those Triads in another episode, but yes, that sounds lovely.
Type Eight.
Type Eight
Melinda: Type Eight is on the Head Triad. Speaking of executives, a lot of them are CEOs, leaders, people in leadership, and they're known to have a big, intense energy. They are large and in charge. They have no issue with directness, conflict. They have no issue making their thoughts known and what they think needs to happen known. They're the kind of people who walk into a room and you're like, oh, I know you're here. Here you are. They're kind of magnets. I think that they draw heads to look at them. They capture attention.
Being on what we call the Gut Triad, but also the Anger Triad, they tend to overdo anger. They have no issues letting you know if they are mad if something's upsetting to them. If something's unjust, they're going to come up against that. They're going to protect others from that.
Nikhil: They'll say what's on their mind. Is that right? Whatever is bothering them. They will not hold back.
Melinda: Exactly. However, the flip side of that is they often don't understand that they have quite a large impact on other people. They have a very hard time owning their vulnerability and their weaknesses and so often that's in their shadow, their weaknesses and their vulnerability.
Joanne: I kind of think about Chihuahuas.
Nikhil: I like that.
Melinda: Here we go. Bring in the heat!
Joanne: Some people who are smaller in stature but their energy just takes up so much space. It's in their over aggression that actually gets people to be more uneasy about them and people resist them. Another metaphor is like Popeye's, Brutus, the main villain, the kind of energy and attention that he draws is like, I know I'm in charge. I know I'm the boss in the room. Don't you dare challenge me. Or sometimes Eights who have leaders over them are constantly straining to see whether the higher ups are actually doing their job. According to their own perspective. And if they conclude that the leaders are not, then Eights might actually try to fill in that space.
Melinda: I think a lot of processing for Eights has to do with like pushback. Eights in therapy, from what I've seen, I could suggest a great thing, but I know they're engaged with me if they push back. I know they're engaged with me if they're like, is that really a good idea? Or no, that's not really happening here, I'd have to be direct with them
Nikhil: They're the type that seems to always feel like they need to be right all the time, right?
Joanne: It's one of the Types. Eight and Ones, but I think that's kind of central theme for Gut Types is like the agenda
Melinda: It's an energetic Type that I really appreciate. I, as a Two, I have a line to Eight, so I have a lot to learn from the high side of Eight.
Nikhil: And what about Type Nines?
Type Nines
Joanne: Nines would be in a lot of ways, the exact opposite of the Eights that we just mentioned in that instead of expanding their energy, they tend to dissipate their energy, kind of like gas particles.
Being very fluid and flexible, they tend to shift around other people so that there's the path of least resistance. They often don't feel comfortable being seen or taking up so much space, like Eights tend to feel very comfortable with in pushing back. Nines often are over accommodating, overly fluctuating, and merging with other people or other established patterns so that they don't have to make decisions for themselves. Because making decisions implies you know what matters to you and you're actually going to take action on behalf of yourself and that takes too much work.
Melinda: One of the things that I like to say with Nines is what happens to your energy when you ask yourself what do I want? What agenda do I want to move forward? Our teacher, Uranio Paes, always likes to say that Nines aren't lazy. They'll do a lot of stuff, but not on behalf of themselves.
Nikhil: They like to keep the peace. They’re known as The Peacemakers. And if there's several things that are happening with friends around them, they will try to resolve that conflict by not adding their own input, but somehow summarizing the input that would cause the least amount of resistance.
Melinda: Yes. And interestingly, that's a great example of how then they have zero idea about what they think in the midst of the conflict around them.
Nikhil: Right. That's right.
Joanne: Very good at seeing the world through other people's eyes except their own. Again, another opposite of Type Eight.
Nikhil: Then we have the Type Ones.
Type Ones
Melinda: You should definitely start with that.
She’s married to a One. She knows.
Joanne: Ones are also very assertive in their assumptions or their certainty kind of like with Eights, but whereas Eights tend to do a big picture Ones tend to be very focused and very precise. As an idealist Type, they tend to sense what things ought to be or what should be and then they get frustrated because actual reality is so far away from that ideal. Often they tend to experience and express anger that's more low key, like coming in the background. Constant agitation and irritation. They feel it in their body. They tend to be very tight and rigid and stiff. It's kind of like not allowing the flow of life to be what it is by constantly thinking of how things ought to be. That's why I like calling them The Improvers.
Melinda: Yes. I think something else that's a huge trademark for Ones is that really loud inner critic. I think other Types have inner critics as well, in their own special ways, but Ones is very classic and loud and it's operating probably 100% of the time. As “hard and judgmental” quote unquote that people may experience Ones as, I think that they are much harder and much more judgmental of themselves. Constantly trying to improve themselves and to police themselves to be that good person. Not understanding that they're already good.
Heart Triad
Nikhil: That finishes out the Gut Triad. Should we make a move over to the Heart Triad now with Types Two, Three, and Four? I know Melinda, this is your favorite Triad out of all of them. You want to get us started with Type Two?
Type Two
Melinda: I’d love to. That’s my core Type, all of the secrets of who I am. I like to say that I'm a recovering Type Two. As a Type Two, as a recovering Type Two, I hope I can do us justice.
Type Twos are classically what people would call The Helpers, that's often what people might know them as. I like to call them The Befrienders, which is Beatrice Chestnut's term, because helping isn't necessarily the only thing that shows up for Twos. Connection, relationships, befriending, and seducing people to us is really what we focus on. We are outward oriented Types. We want to get the hook into the people we like and get them to like us.
We want to be liked. We want to be loved. And we will shift ourselves in whatever way we feel like will make somebody else like us. Being happy, positive, loving, caring, helping. That's our number. That's what we do. However, usually what we don't realize as Twos is that it's kind of manipulative. We will get offended if somebody doesn't want our help. We're rejection sensitive. And so, we will take things as rejection, like, you don't want my help? You must hate me. You must just not love me at all. I'm not lovable. That is the core fear. That we're not lovable. We contort ourselves in every way to make us positive, shiny, sweet, kind to make other people think, wow, I want to be around them.
Unfortunately, then we can't accept it when people are around us because we're not truly being who we are. We often don't even know who we are.
Nikhil: I feel like that sentiment, a lot of people can feel that. When we're talking about each personality Type, I want our viewers to know that you might be seeing a little bit of yourself in each one of these personalities. It's not like one personality necessarily fits all. We might have a little bit of each personality Type. That's very common to see but you'll find though that one of these personalities do stand out.
The one that you're talking about right now, I'm just envisioning, even though I'm a Type Seven, I have had plenty of moments in my life where I feel I've shapeshifted in a way to be liked and wanted people to rely on me. I would put my own needs behind and wanting the love of others and wanting people just to like me.
Melinda: And in fact, knowing your Type, I know that you're a lookalike Type for Two. In fact, a lot of your Type of Seven I relate a lot to.
I think that you hit upon something else, that need to be needed. That's how we show up. We try to be significant. We want to be significant for others. So, we lay down our own needs and don't even know them and try to tune into other people and what we think or assume they need, though, they're not always right.
Stay tuned for Part II
About Dr. Nikhil Sharma & AlignUs
I’m Dr. Nikhil Sharma, founder of AlignUs and for the last 10 years I had dedicated my life to working with patients with liver failure due to alcohol or obesity, who suffer from addictions and was a part of their rehabilitation process and helping them to get to a new liver and a second chance at life. During that period, I thought to myself, what if we could prevent people from suffering major physical health issues by helping them heal from their traumas and improve their mental health?
So, I created AlignUs where our mission is to inspire a world of wellness and philanthropy through compassion, connection and competition.
AlignUs creates a high vibrational atmosphere that involves self-care, physical competition and charitable donations. AlignUs will revolutionize how we do philanthropy in this digital age, while making it fun and rewarding to help each other.
Are you Interested in learning your enneagram & growing through enneagram counseling?
Hi, I’m Melinda
I’m a therapist who uses the Enneagram and Brainspotting to help 20 & 30-somethings understand and change unhelpful patterns, love themselves, and navigate all the big transitions and emotions that come with where they are in life.
What my clients often look like:
1) Empaths and “HSPs” who feel deeply and are afraid that something is “wrong” with them or have been told that they are too “sensitive”
2) Helpers or “over-givers” who want healthier relationships with themselves and others
3) Enneagram enthusiasts who want to grow
4) Premarital and young couples wanting to start their marriage off on the right foot