Enneagram Head Types - 5's, 6's, 7's
Joanne Kim (OliveMe Counseling) and Melinda Olsen (Inviterra Counseling) join Nikhil Sharma (AlignUs World) in a six part series to discuss the Enneagram.
In this six part series we give an introduction to each Enneagram Type, look at each of the Triads: Body, Heart, and Head, and discuss subtypes and instincts.
Watch the video below for Enneagram Head Types (or keep scrolling past the downloadables for the transcript!)
Downloadables
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Transcript
Nikhil: Why don't we jump right into it? Today's episode is on the Enneagram Head Types. And today we're going to be joined by two special guests. And we have Ms. Melinda Olsen, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist, founder of Inviterra Counseling, and co-founder of Havenly Counseling Collective. Next to her, we have Ms. Joanne Kim, an Enneagram Therapist at OliveMe Counseling and Feelings Translator at Intelligent Emotions. Welcome guys, glad to have you back with us on the AlignUs Podcast. Thank you for being here.
Before we jump into our topic today, do you mind giving us a little bit of background of y'all's professional history?
More on Melinda and Joanne
Melinda: I'll start. I too am an Enneagram Therapist. I love helping people who have already identified their Enneagram Type, but they feel like they’ve poked holes in their patterns, and grown in some awareness, but are feeling stuck in some of the deeper psychological issues that are keeping their awareness from growing. That's where I find the juice. It's so good. I want to get deep with people. I use the Enneagram in order to do that with Inviterra Counseling, which is my business, my baby.
At Havenly, as the co-founder of Havenly, I really wanted to develop an inclusive community for healers and clients where they can find comfort and care and a space where they can just be. Find a community of people who want to grow.
Joanne: For me, if you were looking at my resume, you'd be like, huh? What is happening here? Started off in college as a mechanical engineer, then switched to political science and international relations, then Japanese studies, then became a pastor for a couple of years, and then became an instructor. Now I'm a therapist and I'm probably going to move on to the Entrepreneurial Coaching space.
So, who knows where I'm going to be in another five years.
Melinda: You have done so much. That's so funny though. You did international relations and politics and me too. And religious stuff.
Nikhil: Finding out more about each other!
Look, it’s a pleasure to have both of you guys here today. Why don’t we dive right into the Head Types, which are Types Five, Six, and Seven.
Breaking down the areas. There's the Head Triad, there's the Heart Triad, and then there's the Body or Gut Triad.
Each one has its own special emotion that's attached to it and their own themes. Can we provide an overview of what the Head Triad is commonly known for and each Type?
The Head Triad and Fear
Melinda: The Head Triad usually engages the world via their thoughts. Via the Head. So, if we talk about Centers of Intelligence, it is focused right up here, right on the head space. They tend to engage the world via knowledge, thoughts, prefrontal cortex-y type things. The Head Triad is also the Fear Triad. So, you'll find themes of engaging with fear in every Type: Five, Six, and Seven.
Joanne: When we think about intelligence, we think about things that Head Types tend to prefer and Head Types tend to assume that this is just how the world is supposed to be. A lot of different countries orient their culture to value these things, reason into things that are measurable, the scientific approach, all that kind of stuff. But the disadvantage of Head Types is in forgetting that the other centers, like the Heart and the Body also exist.
Head Types tend to overly rely on their dominant modes of being to the point where they paint themselves into a corner. Often around things related to safety, security, possessions. Head Types tend to believe in the lie, I am what I have. So, trying to gather ways for them to feel like they're okay. Gather experiences, gather knowledge, prepare, make sure to be connected with certain people, et cetera, all as a means of trying to gain safety for oneself.
Melinda: Yeah. Security is a really big theme for the Head Triad.
Nikhil: I think you named every quality that I embody because I am a part of the Head Type. I'm a Type Seven. It's just so cool to hear other people talk about you, like when you start hearing things that you resonate with. I still just get that awe, and I'm like, yeah, that's right. Yeah. I do look for security and I make sure I'm always in a good position. It's just a really cool thing to be learning more about yourself.
The fear that we have is we're always thinking about the future. I find myself doing that very often. That's where a lot of my fear comes into play. I try to make my existence as good as I possibly can to really avoid that fear.
Maybe we can talk about each Type. Starting off with the Type Fives and how do they show up when it comes to understanding fear as a common theme.
Type Five
Melinda: Fives, and this is a running theory, I could be wrong, but I feel like Fives often exist in conflict with fear. Even though Fives are the headiest of the Head Types. When you think of Head Type, you think stereotypically a Five. They are often in the sciences or math or things that are very heady. Fives tend to cut themselves off from emotion, from the body, and from action. They are the thinkers of the thinking Triad.
In terms of their fear, they collect knowledge in order to control their fear, in order to find security, in order to bend against fear of the world being overtaken. I love the metaphor Joanne has about the ivory tower and the fortress.
Joanne: It's like Fives kind of lock themselves in, sequestering themselves away from the world and basically cutting off supply to ample resources that they too have access to, but they're living as if all that's inside their fortress is all that's available. That leads to a lot of hoarding and a lot of stinginess, a lot of rationing out thinking in a very minimalist way. How can I get by on the least amount possible forgetting that the world is still well available to them, but it's like the fear of abundance, which is counterintuitive for all the other Types. Even for Fives, they might not even register that they have this fear. In their head, it makes a lot of sense. That's kind of the tricky part, and even recognizing that Fives are kind of based in the Fear Triad.
Melinda: I think they also have this fear of being overtaken. I think if you were to ask any Five if they were scared of being overwhelmed, running out of energy, feeling depleted, not knowing something that they should know about, they would definitely say, yeah, that's not something that I feel great about. Yes, that is something I'm scared of. My husband is a Five so when I suggested the challenge, that we'll get to eventually, to him, he was like, nope. Nope.
Nikhil: That sounds uncomfortable.
Melinda: He's a fairly more developed Five, but I think that a lot of Fives do feel that fear of being overtaken, overwhelmed, not having enough. They have to make sure they have enough energy allocated over time in order to survive and have that security, which is why I find a lot of Fives hate spontaneity. They hate surprises. They have a very difficult time like if somebody else is controlling their day because how am I going to allocate what I need over that amount of time if I don't know what's going to happen?
Joanne: I think Fives tend to see other people as parasites or invaders. In that another person, even if it's their partner or close family member, it's like how much is this person going to take from me? Or how much energy do I need to expend dealing with this? How that shows up in the non-personal relationship arena, like at work, is that Fives are over-compartmentalized in being super private. So, people at work might have not have any idea of what the Five will experience of the weekend because that's one of the ways that the Five enhances the sense of safety and security by closing any access for anyone else to get to know them.
Melinda: What I find pretty sad about Five is that fear and that closing off really prevents them from doing something they deeply want. Some Fives might be more in touch with this than others, but connection. I think that Fives isolate, but they are aware of their loneliness. I think sometimes they feel like they're on the outside of humanity with their nose pressed up against the glass, looking in, and wishing that they could be a part of it. But then terrified that they're going to get taken over, or overwhelmed, or people are going to take energy away from them. It's such a conflictual experience.
Joanne: Fives are one of the Types that are more prone to depression because of it. But depression in that sense is a byproduct of their own ego in not allowing themselves to be connected.
Nikhil: What about Type Sixes and how do they show up in fear?
Type Six
Melinda: Sixes are typically the Type that overdoes fear. The stereotypical Six is very anxious. They are worst case scenario-ing life. If something's going to happen like an event or something going on in the future, they could probably give you 15 ways that it'll go wrong. Or more, I'm probably underestimating. And how to make sure those things don't happen.
They are in constant hypervigilance. Joanne used a term called. Not PTSD, but Pre, not Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder. It's like that constant hypervigilance and anticipation of something going wrong. That is how they create security, one of the ways that they create security in the world.
I think they look out and think that everything is unstable, nothing is safe, nothing is okay and then when they look inward, they find the same thing. So, you'll find themes of Sixes having a hard time trusting even themselves, their own inner voice, their own courage, their gut, the things that they believe. They're constantly questioning themselves. So, when you don't find security outside and you don't find security inside, of course, you're going to try to use your brain to make sure that you have everything in mind, so things feel stable, but internally Sixes feel anything but stable.
Nikhil: You resonated with me a little bit when you were talking about sometimes we're not trusting what our Gut is telling us or what our Instincts are telling us. I think a lot of that has to do with how our Instincts are repressed at a young age by our parents, when we try to come with them to the problem, and then they basically dismiss that issue whether it's like so and so is bullying me at school or whatever and they come off with, oh, it's not that big of a deal or man up. I think at a young age, at least in our generation, that was very commonly said to us, at least said to me. What happens is that just teaches you not to trust your own Instincts as you get old. That what your body is feeling isn't necessarily true. That can become very damaging in our relationships and how we interact with the world if we're not able to trust what our body and mind is telling us then a lot can go wrong. I feel like the important thing to take away here is when you're on this journey it's like you're able to clue into yourself and then that's not just into what your personality is. It's into your mind. It's into your body. It tells us what feels good. It's telling us what feels wrong.
Naturally our body has these sympathetic and parasympathetic receptors. It's our fight or flight. We need to be more cognizant and more balanced of how we receive those messages and understand, hey, this doesn't seem right. I need to do something about this or this feeling of being in a relationship, there's just something in the pit of my stomach that feels it's not okay. I'm not being validated; I know something's wrong. But oftentimes we don't do anything about that, or we let it linger. Then one year turns into three years and you're in these codependent relationships. I'm talking about a lot of experiences I've been in, and it's just not having a strength to move forward or having the tools.
That's what waking up and learning about yourself can empower you to do. It gives you that strength because you know more about yourself and what feels good.
Joanne: Three keywords for Sixes are power, strength, and authority. Basically, one in the same in a lot of ways in that Six is disconnect from their own authority and power to make effective change. They project it outwards towards someone or something else. It might be another person. It might be towards codes or establishments, rules, et cetera. It might be in connection with other people, but in doing so there's a power vacuum that gets created. When Sixes are so questioning of their own internals and their own values, who they are, what they want, et cetera, then it creates a space where anyone who's power hungry can come in and then the Six often overly trusting in some cases.
Kind of an extreme example would be Nazi Germany. There was so much reliance on rules and orders as a survival mechanism, like post the World Wars. When someone with a very charismatic, power wielding person came in Sixes, we're like, yep, that's the person I want to follow kind of as a way of not owning their own ability to make their own decisions, exercise their wisdom, etc.
This can happen in professional arenas where the employee is constantly questioning whether or not they can do things and so they don't go for promotion opportunities, or they often dampen their own ability, even though they're the most trustworthy person or the most capable and competent person. It's kind of like kicking the authority away to someone else to step in and then blaming them if something goes wrong.
Melinda: Very conflictual relationship with power and authority and having a difficult time having confidence. Confidence in themselves and what they can do and what they can accomplish. Moving forward in courage, which is what we hope that as a Six does their journey they move into trusting themselves and courageously moving forward, even though they feel fear. That is courage, right? Courage is moving forward even though I feel afraid. Fear in some ways is a really healthy emotion.
It's supposed to be something that we have.
Nikhil: If we didn't have fear, we could potentially die. We'd be dead. A bear's coming at me and if I'm just standing there and I'm not feeling any fear, then you're dead.
Melinda: But moving through understanding I have something valuable; I have something to contribute, how I feel matters and I have conviction internally to bring that forth. Sixes are so freaking powerful when they've done their work. And we've seen so many beautifully developed Sixes in our journey, and it's so cool. And Fives too. I love to talk about that. What people are aiming toward when they do this work, I think it's so important. I think Fives becomes so beautifully energetic and wanting to connect and open hearted, soft hearted. I see Uranio Paes, a very developed Five, one of our teachers, and you see him shift intentionally to every different Type when we're at one of his workshops. He'll come to a Heart Type, and he'll immediately shift and be like, hello, how are you? Connecting on this emotional level. He's just so open and that's kind of what development along the Enneagram path can open for us. We start to look very different than our coping.
Nikhil: Then the last Head Type, Type Seven. How does fear show up in their regards?
Type Seven
Joanne: I would say that in the way that Fives have a complicated relationship with fear, Sixes overdue fear, Seven's underly do fear.
Melinda: They kick it out the window. I don't think they even recognize it exists.
Joanne: Like, oh, that's too much negative vibes.
Melinda: Good vibes only.
Nikhil: Good vibes only. Like that t-shirt just resonates with me so much. Good vibes only.
Joanne: Of the Head Types Seven’s probably take more energy to recognize that they're driven by fear. But how that shows up is in things like wanting to make sure to not commit to any plans for fear of being trapped or missing out on a really awesome opportunity. Or being scared of being trapped in responsibilities for commitment or boredom. Things that seem more grown up; we don't want to that.
It's kind of like the Peter Pan syndrome, forever young and youthful. Fear drives Sevens to seek experiences, opportunities, anything that's exciting as a way of trying to outpace fear.
Melinda: They're very action-oriented Type.
Joanne: They are the doers of the thinking Triad.
Melinda: Fives are the thinkers of the thinking Triad, Sixes are the feelers of the thinking Triad, and then Sevens are the doers of the thinking Triad. Let's get. Stuff done.
Joanne: The key operative word for Sevens is what could happen. So, it's about opportunities or possibilities. It's like Sevens get so much of a hit in thinking on an intellectual level of the experience, but when they actually get to the experience, it's like, I already had the fun stuff up front when I thought about what could happen.
Melinda: I'm thinking about the next thing now.
Joanne: Yeah, we're just going to skip along. It's the ideating. It's like, that's so intriguing. That's kind of where the Head Type piece shows up even though in some ways they might sometimes look like another Type.
Melinda: I think Sevens are like idea, idea, idea, idea. This idea.
Nikhil: We definitely have a lot of ideas, that's for sure. There's no doubt about it. I used to be called the idea guy and that's the thing. But you're right, there's too many ideas. Obviously, we start going into our head and we end up not doing any of those ideas a lot of times. That leads to a lot of resentment for us or disappointment.
Joanne: Sevens as leaders might come up with a lot of really awesome ideas. In terms of figuring out the nitty gritty stuff, they kick it on to their coworkers. Then the Seven CEO has already moved on to the next day. Everyone else was like we were working on this project that you wanted us to start and then you're like completely somewhere else. That can create a lot of tension with Seven leaders.
Nikhil: I'll give a great example of how when I found out that I was a Seven and when I realized what I did. One of the things that Sevens do when they're not healthy is that they take on too many projects and too many ideas all at the same time and we never finished up any of those ideas. We would get excited and then, okay, yeah, this looks good enough. It would be like 60% done and then move on to something else. But then that 40% that wasn't finished the way we would like, it lingers in my brain.
The first thing I remember being taught about an action plan to set in was Nick, when you do your laundry that day, you should do the laundry, then fold your clothes after the laundry, and then put them back into your drawer. Because a lot of times I would just do the laundry, keep it in the dryer for a day, two, three days, and then I would come back to it when I could. But it was this small implementation of if I'm going to start this laundry today, meaning I better have enough time throughout the day today to be able to finish it off because otherwise don't start that project.
It's simple action plans like that for the people that are listening that being aware of your personality Type can allow you to do. It's not like something you have to do, taking this giant leap. For me, it was something as simple as just starting a task and then making sure whatever that task was for the day that I was going to finish it that day.
It's incredible how that one task, that one action, has set off changing my habits in the way I show up every single day. We don't need to accomplish 100 things today; I just need to accomplish one thing today that's going to help me push for my bigger goal.
Melinda: In fact, even just having one thing, that's such a huge growth step for a Seven. One thing today. The passion for Seven is gluttony. It’s I just want more, more, more, more, many, many, many of the things, right? Self-limitation and following through though Seven might hear that.
Joanne: What is that? We don't do that.
Nikhil: Yeah. I get a little allergic reaction when I hear self-limitation.
Melinda: That's where you know you're on the right track.
Nikhil: That's right.
Melinda: That's such a great example of a growth exercise for a Seven.
Nikhil: What about any growth exercises for Fives and Sixes?
Growth Challenges
Melinda: We definitely have some that we have prepared. A disclaimer though if you hear it and you hate it, then it's a good sign.
Nikhil: I'm trying to get people to get it. It's okay if you're feeling a little uncomfortable, just hang out there a little bit and find your pack of people that are a little bit uncomfortable. I mean, we're feeling a little uncomfortable right now. People listening, you’re going to find new people. The joy of this journey is the new experiences that you will have and all of them are coming from an authentic place inside of you. You have made these changes and now the universe will bring you back experiences. That initially may be a little tough. There's turbulence in this journey, right? Then there's like this rainbow and getting out of the tunnel and you see some clear skies. They will be there, and you'll be able to do the things that you have always wanted to do. But it's about putting in that work. That's why we're here.
Melinda: Absolutely. And just a quick note for those listening if you decide, and I hope you do, to take on one of these challenges, depending on your Type, just remember as you're observing yourself doing these challenges, take note of how you feel. Your feelings. Your thoughts. Your reactions Your sensations. Without judgment. I really want to emphasize that. Some Types are more judgmental of self than other Types are. Speaking from experience, that self-critic and that shame, or that criticism, self-criticism can really get in the way of your growth. So, I just really want to encourage everybody as they're doing this journey of inner work to look on yourself with non-judgment. I say that to myself as much as anybody here because it really can arrest our growth.
We hope that these exercises and challenges are both vomit inducing in the best possible way and…
Nikhil: The one thing I also want to throw in there with what you just said is so true, so beautiful and what I've realized is that we are all going through the same experiences in life.
I feel like we are often looking at social media and thinking that because someone’s living in some mansion and they're posting a picture about it that they're not experiencing the same ups and downs in life that you're experiencing. That's not true at all. We are literally all going through the same exact adversities, the same exact good times and bad times. We're all in this big collective. It's like a huge human conscious that I feel we're all connected in. And when we removed race and everything, we are one big conscious. When you realize that and yes, we may have started with different playing hands, we may have all started with a different set of playing cards, but it's up to us in this life to maximize our potential by discovering who we are at our core. Because when you realize who you are and you understand your values, your character strengths, your personality Type, only from that point and that foundation can you really make concrete movement forward, lift the veil that's in front of you, and see things how they really are. Most importantly, not to judge yourself because of what you have gone through, I promise you, people around you have gone through it too. It's just that a lot of us are not vulnerable to each other, but if you sit down and talk to somebody, they will be like, you know what I went through that too. You know what? My mom passed away at this age. My dad also… It's been really hard for me. It was hard. Something happened, I was traumatized as a young kid. I saw something I shouldn't have seen. It's really beautiful. We’re all in the same experience.
I think once people can try to let that soak in a little bit, you'll be more empowered to want to start changing and using the word improving, it's really just trying to improve your own experience and your whole human experience.
Melinda: I like to think about it as raising awareness, both on behalf of yourself and then for people around you that automatically happens. So, it's a beautiful journey and hard journey that we're going through, but it's important.
Nikhil: All right. Well, let's see what challenges you guys have cooked up for us today.
Melinda: I'm so excited. Okay. All right.
Joanne: She's married to a Five, so she's been waiting for this all day.
Melinda: Yeah. But I don’t know if he’s going to do it.
Nikhil: I’m excited for my challenge.
Melinda: Fives make an appointment to do some body work. Fives are typically out of touch with their bodies and their emotions. Usually, they find a way in by focusing on one or another. Typically, I've found that Fives tend to have an easier time focusing on body than they do on feelings. So, make an appointment for a massage, a float tank, yoga. Do some rigorous, energetic exercise that requires quick responses, like tennis, or football, or racquetball with other people. Do not go running because you know you'll zone out in your head if you go running, do not do that.
Nikhil: See how good this personal journey stuff can be.
They're asking you to do massages, you know, like some beautiful stuff.
Melinda: In the moment that you're doing whatever you choose, just tune into how your body is feeling. Tune into the energy that can come when you allow your body to move and see how you feel, the sensations that come up.
So that's the challenge for Fives.
Nikhil: All right. What about the challenge for Sixes?
Joanne: Sixes, I would say a lot of it is about re-owning their power and their authority. A lot of that shows up in decision making or lack thereof. Analysis paralysis, procrastination, perfectionism, all those are manifestations of a Six not taking action on behalf of themselves and then they can justify that by saying, I need more time. I need to do more research. I'm not sure if it's going to be okay, and all that stuff.
You can do all those things, that's okay, you can worry, but first set a time limit up front as to how much you will allow yourself to do that. When that timer goes off, you give yourself 15 minutes, make a decision and do all the research you can, but when that timer goes off, you have to make a call. No going back. Keep moving forward.
Melinda: Okay, for Sevens, Nik.
Nikhil: I'm ready, I'm ready.
Melinda: You ready? Take three meals. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner, or however you allocate meals, if it's six meals or whatever you do. Pick those meals and eat the same thing every day for a week.
Nikhil: Okay, so you're saying eat the same breakfast, eat the same lunch, and the same dinner for a week.
Melinda: And see what comes up for you as you commit. So, Sevens again, if we think about gluttony, right? Sevens want to experience every good thing. So, that can show up in food. That can show up in dreams, right? Sobriety is actually a really important thing for Sevens. Not necessarily abstaining from alcohol all the time but abstaining.
Joanne: Abstaining from whatever gives you that hit.
Melinda: So, we're going to experiment with food in that regard for the challenge for the Sevens.
Joanne: The extra credit is having someone else pick your meals and then you're stuck with that.
Melinda: Oh, that reaction tells me that you should do that, Nik.
Nikhil: I should do that probably. Yeah.
This is good. I like this challenge.
Joanne: You have freedom in choosing what you will have for your meals but once you decide, that's what you're sticking with. It's a way of practicing the follow through all the way to the end. All the way to the end of the week. And noticing what reactions come up when you start getting bored.
Melinda: Because they will start to get bored.
Nikhil: Yes. I like this challenge. I'm excited. I was kind of already processing which meal is it going to be? That's the kind of stuff that's going through my head right now. Like it's got to be good. It's got to be something that's delicious.
Melinda: You’re already trying to rationalize your meal so it's as variety focused as possible.
Nikhil: That's right. And I'm excited about doing it. For everyone that ends up doing the challenge, please let us know down in the comments section. What came up for you? How did you feel? Were you able to follow through with it? Even if you can start it that's the best, at least you're trying. Give yourself a lot of compassion. For those completing your challenge just check back with us on a daily basis. Let us know how the challenge is going.
Again, we're so grateful to have Melinda and Joanne with us today and throughout this series. Hopefully everyone listening has learned something about themselves. This whole Enneagram series, again, we all embody some parts of each thing that it's involved with. It's about balance at the end of the day. When we find ourselves doing too much of one thing, we need to try to be a little bit more self-aware and then maybe scale back and listen to others or try something just a little bit different.
Stay tuned for Heart Types
About Dr. Nikhil Sharma & AlignUs
I’m Dr. Nikhil Sharma, founder of AlignUs and for the last 10 years I had dedicated my life to working with patients with liver failure due to alcohol or obesity, who suffer from addictions and was a part of their rehabilitation process and helping them to get to a new liver and a second chance at life. During that period, I thought to myself, what if we could prevent people from suffering major physical health issues by helping them heal from their traumas and improve their mental health?
So, I created AlignUs where our mission is to inspire a world of wellness and philanthropy through compassion, connection and competition.
AlignUs creates a high vibrational atmosphere that involves self-care, physical competition and charitable donations. AlignUs will revolutionize how we do philanthropy in this digital age, while making it fun and rewarding to help each other.
Are you Interested in learning your enneagram & growing through enneagram counseling?
Hi, I’m Melinda
I’m a therapist who uses the Enneagram and Brainspotting to help 20 & 30-somethings understand and change unhelpful patterns, love themselves, and navigate all the big transitions and emotions that come with where they are in life.
What my clients often look like:
1) Empaths and “HSPs” who feel deeply and are afraid that something is “wrong” with them or have been told that they are too “sensitive”
2) Helpers or “over-givers” who want healthier relationships with themselves and others
3) Enneagram enthusiasts who want to grow
4) Premarital and young couples wanting to start their marriage off on the right foot